ESL Jobs - ESL, EFL, TEFL, TESOL Teaching Jobs
  • FREE Weekly ESL Jobs
  • ESL, EFL, TESL, TEFL -- Get weekly updates of the Hottest New Jobs direct to your inbox as well as easily apply to new openings!
  • Enter your Email:

ESL Jobs Forum
"Where New and Seasoned ESL Professionals Come Together To Network . . . Share. Listen. Learn."

 FAQIndex    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups      RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

When the ad says "native" speakers only!
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESL Jobs Forum Forum Index -> Discrimination Issues in ESL...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
St. George



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 108
Location: Ex Libya

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: RACIAL Reply with quote

Cheerful_Carmen

I don't think the Chinese school owner is being racial by selecting a white skinned, blond haired, blue eyed native speaker for their English teacher. It is what the students' parents think an English native speaker should look like. The school owner doesn't really care whether the teacher is any good or not as long as they look the part because it will mean more money for him.

St G
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LHuang



Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: suitable roles available for non-Caucasian English teachers Reply with quote

I have posted the following link to a recent report about English
teaching in Japan. It provides a newer perspective (and a counter
argument, to some earlier content at this part of the forum) regarding
whether it is suitable for non-Caucasian persons to become an English
teacher.

At the end of the day, whoever can pass on appropriate skills
to do with reading, writing, listening and speaking English, would
be suitable for the job.

I am of Asian appearance myself, and over the years have
successfully undertaken some teaching of English as well as other
subject matter at university level, using English.
In my experience of having spent most of my time living in a western, majority English-speaking country, and having performed a variety of male
roles in society, I have reached this basic conclusion ...
- any human being who is keen, and who spends enough time on it,
is capable of learning any foreign language and of emulating the full range of
linguistic variations, including what is known as "native" pronunciation
of English.
- that point, by itself, won't necessarily make someone into
a good teacher of the language, but at least we know that (contrary to
certain impressions one reads at this part of the forum) one does not
necessarily have to be Caucasian in appearance in order to make a
positive contribution in the area of language education.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fs20100415a3.html
Thursday, April 15, 2010
re: English-language schools in Japan are changing stereotypes by proving that good teaching is not about nationality
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheerful_carmen



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.... Reply with quote


This is my reply to St. George ....


In some aspects, yes you are right, but not all of them are thinking of their expenses.
... if it is true that the school owners don't really care about the race as they consider it as "native"... then they shouldn't be particular about the nationality. Actually, when I responded to some employers, they said that they only accept people from seven countries, ( New Zealand, US, UK, Australia, Canada, South Africa,) and reiterated that they only accept those with the native tongue, regardless of training and teaching experiences. Wasn't that an insult? So what do they think of Filipinos? English is the medium of instruction from the start of school. I'm a degree holder with master's units, and with enough experience to qualify me but it appears that I was insistent to have sent my application, competing with young native backpackers. So... right that day, I made a phone call to that employer and asked him if he could give me a chance to prove myself. OK, perhaps by luck, I made it and I won the job... but what would have happened if I wasn't that insistent ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
St. George



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 108
Location: Ex Libya

PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: FILIPINOS Reply with quote

Cheerful_Carmen

I agree that if you hadn't been persistent then you would have been left by the wayside. There will always be prejudices in the world and so one must fight their corner as you did.

I have known and worked with Filipinos for many years. Some have strong accents and some are like native speakers. Some are dark skinned where others are light skinned and some are very well educated while others are not.

Unfortunately, some employers think that all Filipinos are the same.

St. G
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dwca



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the Canadians(and everyone else) in this thread who were not passive aggressive snobs and actually capitalized Americans (instead of asking us to excuse the little "a") I would like to thank you. You know, for writing correctly and not being petty.

For the ones who insist on American bashing or just being plain old rude I encourage you to keep on course.

Eventually you will run into someone like me who will be more than happy to help adjust your little attitude.

Signed,
Fed up with rude foreigners
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LHuang



Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:00 am    Post subject: Caucasian appearance is still preferred in ESL in China Reply with quote

Regardless of the profession, it's sensible for whoever is engaged in it, or whoever is contemplating getting involved, to know as much of the "ground rules" as possible.

Whether or not certain racial appearances are preferred for ESL teachers in some countries, is a critical issue, if someone is not ethnically of a Caucasian background (ie. the person is ethnically of an Asian, African or Latin American race). This point is common sense, and has to do with recognising that "racial appearance does matter" in some fields of human endeavour, and it's not for the purpose of highlighting certain racial groups
just for the sake of it.
A person in the above situation is advised to do proper research before spending too much of their valuable time and resources in training for a field, as the end objective is usually not to study a new subject for the sake of it, it is to find a source of employment that pays a reasonable wage.

The way to get to the facts is to read as many press reports, or postings on discussion forums such as this, to get to a reasonable impression of the truth.
I'm very grateful for the organisers of this online discussion forum, since it has made possible the opportunity for different persons who are involved with ESL to be able to post their views about racism and other important issues.

For example, if China is the target country, the following article is recommended reading material.
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/Office/Story/A1Story20100510-215239/2.html
This report is a summary of the situation in ESL in China, as reported very recently in a Singapore newspaper on or about 12 May 2010

There could be any number of reasons why someone who is not of a Caucasian appearance still insists on working in the ESL field in China or other parts of Asia notwithstanding what is the obvious situation vis-a-vis
racial preferences. If and when human attitudes mature to a point where such a situation is felt to be undesirable (and I have no doubt eventually everyone will have to move in that direction, since racism is already a major "no no" in the United States and that country happens to be the de factor leader of the western world which also happens to have lead all the major social changes that occurred in the world during the past 500 years), a conclusion will no doubt be eventually reached, that the persons responsible for causing it to occur are not just the hirers, but also the people who send their students to those schools and who expressed a certain preference about racial appearance.

If a person in this category (ie. someone who is of so-called "non-white" in appearance) still wishes to continue in the ESL field, it's probably going to require actions along the following lines:
- keep on applying, until one finds a hirer who doesn't use racial appearance
as the main criterion for hiring an ESL teacher;
- aim to do some teaching online (I've managed to get some tutoring work this way, even though my appearance is ethnic Chinese);
- combine teaching English, with teaching some other subjects;
- campaigning to get laws changed (note: hiring on the basis of race is already illegal in Australia, the United States, the UK, most other western countries; an anti-racial discrimination law was either introduced or was being debated in Hong Kong during 2009.

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=85550
this link explains the Hong Kong Racial Discrimination Ordinance
10 July 2009

Either fines and/or a jail term is part of the punishment in some cases.
Thus any country including China where racist employment ads are still not illegal, is a sign of the country being "backward" in this regard, since every developed country has already long since grown out of this immature phase of their society. Sad to say, whereas some of us have already benefitted from moving on, to living in the 21st century (where a mixed race person is now President of the United States, and where there is more racial equality than ever before) unfortunately some backward countries are still stuck with a 19th century mindset;
- be patient, and wait for perhaps another decade or more for schools in China and other parts of Asia to be willing to employ ESL teachers solely on the basis of merit; and
- [as a last resort, if someone is a Christian] pray to God to get proper guidance. Readers should note, that any form of racial discrimination is ungodlike and unChristian, since such an attitude demeans the dignity of a human individual.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chuckles



Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only speak from my experience, teaching in China. They told me they prefer "native" speakers, from an English speaking country, because both the students, and their parents (who pay the bills) do not give much creedence to anyone else who may try to teach English, to them. In some cases, the students will totally ignore a Chinese teacher, who is trying to teach English. They like American English, because it is easier, and less formal than the "Queens" English, or as they call it,"British" English. You ask almost any Chinese student, who has studied English, in China, "How are you?" They all reply, "Fine, thank you, and you?" It is a specific response, to a specific question. My daughter calls it the "Machine response" method of learning English. Imagine my students amazement, when they discovered that "How are you?," had an infinite number of responses. I was also able to tell them why we call a typhoon a hurricane, and why dollars are called bucks, in America. The students have a lot of questions, and if you are a non-native speaker, you may not be able to answer. When this happens,their parents hear about it. Then the school hears about it. The schools are in business. Enrollment is everything. More students = more money. My students enjoyed my classes, because I was able to tell them "WHY." Most Chinese English teachers cannot do this, so they suffer. It may not be fair, or right, but it is the way it was, for me. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JamesAtRealize



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 118
Location: Kobe, Sanomiya, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dwca wrote:
For the Canadians(and everyone else) in this thread who were not passive aggressive snobs and actually capitalized Americans (instead of asking us to excuse the little "a") I would like to thank you. You know, for writing correctly and not being petty.

For the ones who insist on American bashing or just being plain old rude I encourage you to keep on course.

Eventually you will run into someone like me who will be more than happy to help adjust your little attitude.

Signed,
Fed up with rude foreigners


LOL, that's hillarious, I'm Canadian and have been teaching in Japan for a little while. I very often run into Japanese people who love America-bashing, especially Americans in Japan.
It's usually me who has to remind them that there are ass-holes in all cultures who sometimes make it difficult to see the good people in those cultures.
_________________
マンツーマン 英会話 神戸 三宮 リアライズ - James
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GGG



Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:26 am    Post subject: Recruitment perspective Reply with quote

In reading through these comments it is clear to me that there are obviously some very qualified and talented individuals who have had trouble getting a job based on their nationality.

Speaking as someone who recruits teachers I can honestly say that I have hired teachers from many countries that do not have English as their primary language. That being said I am always very reluctant to arrange interviews with people from countries that do not typical use English primarily. The reason is not because there are not fully qualified people to be found, but that there are an overwhelming number of people who misrepresent their abilities. When you are arranging interviews you have only a limited amount of time to meet people. If you use space on someone who looks good on paper and has very little actual speaking ability it is hugely discouraging. It seams that there are a lot of people spending an inordinate amount of time and perhaps getting help to create a great resume when it does not match thier actual skill level.

I think that for anyone who is considering a career in the industry they should make an effort to ensure that recruitment personnel know that their English level is adequate. This means putting a lot of effort into making your written communication direct and clear so that they know your level of English is in line with your resume.

Additionally if you know someone who is trying to break into the industry with less than adequate language skill then please tell them. Profiling of applicants based on nationality is not legal or even ethical, but decisions on who gets an interview is very often based on instinct and this does not take into consideration ethics, it is an automatic response based on experiences.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Don34Tall



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately there are so many English teachers who are not native speakers and it makes a difference - We live abroad, our children's mother tongue is English though their reading and writing is much lower than children raised in the States. when they get a teacher who has "learned" English, they get frustrated by the words are wrong or perhaps they're in the dictionary but not the way English is spoken
_________________
Don Tall
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESL Jobs Forum Forum Index -> Discrimination Issues in ESL... All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 5 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Protected by Anti-Spam ACP


Contact Us | About Us | ESL Jobs Newsletter | ESL Lesson Plan | ESL Online