ESL Jobs - ESL, EFL, TEFL, TESOL Teaching Jobs
  • FREE Weekly ESL Jobs
  • ESL, EFL, TESL, TEFL -- Get weekly updates of the Hottest New Jobs direct to your inbox as well as easily apply to new openings!
  • Enter your Email:

ESL Jobs Forum
"Where New and Seasoned ESL Professionals Come Together To Network . . . Share. Listen. Learn."

 FAQIndex    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups      RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Age discrimination in hiring?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESL Jobs Forum Forum Index -> Discrimination Issues in ESL...
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Does Age Discrimination Exist in the Overseas EFL / ESL Industry?
No. It's An Age-Blind World Out There. With Age Comes Wisdom.
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
Yes. If You're In Your 40's You've Reached the Maximum Life Span For Some Countries.
83%
 83%  [ 40 ]
Don't Know. I've Never Heard Of This Problem.
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 48

Author Message
SC



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:53 am    Post subject: Age limit Reply with quote

I know for a fact, that you can not get a legitimate Z visa in China if you are over the age of 60 however, you may still have a lot of trouble finding a position.
In Korea, schools prefer teachers under the age of 40. It really depends how good your CV is and what salary you are willing to accept.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
fotomann



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:35 am    Post subject: Age Discrimination Reply with quote

You better believe there is age discrimination. All over the place. Easiest thing to do is engratiate yourself with the locals. Let them look you over. And then make your pitch to teach school. Do it yourself. You don't need a "formal" school to do the heavy lifting. [/b]
_________________
FOTOMANN
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
fotomann



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:45 am    Post subject: Getting Into The Game After Fifty Reply with quote

I have been reading about all the horror stories of getting into the ESL game after a certain age. And there is much to be believed. However, just as with so many other things in life, performance counts. Regardless of the age. I have watched creeping ageism swallow individuals who had much to give but were beaten down by the age spectre. I avoided formal lines of employment and did things on my own. I operated within the locale. Letting the people absorb who I was. As the song says : Getting to know you. Little by little I was able to "build my stable". Some of the local language schools (read ESL) came around to see what was what. Sizing up the competition. Asking the students if they were learning and using. All very favorable. I continued to work this way and was able to acquire students and make my way.

It can be done, but you are in for a long ride. Lotsa luck!
_________________
FOTOMANN
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Lee Hobbs
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 141
Location: TheGulfCoast

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Teaching a man to fish Reply with quote

Thanks Fotomann for your useful insight into this very controversial issue in the field. I hope others who have found ways to *overcome* such discrimination will also speak up and join the discussion.

Lee
_________________

Lee's blog is still available, however, here: www.english-blog.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Renate



Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Age and -ism Reply with quote

The law in China actually stipulates that no foreign teachers should be over sixty. ..and remember in China, you should get to know the law as most things run by it. I understood many things once I familiarised myself with their law. The reasons are simple, older teachers are more likely to become ill, therefore a drain on scarce resources and also, the retirement age in China is supposed to be 55 years of age.
With a massive population of one and a third billion to service, the government has to look at all the cons first..which includes the wisdom of bringing in WORKERS from the outside which might not be totally necessary or good for their society in other ways though obviously it gives them a wider view of the world about them.
However the need for good NATIVE speaking teachers is perceived as so great that shortages in that field prevail and often necessitate the hiring of older teachers, for which I am eternally grateful as I myself am sixty four and have only been working in China for the last seven years...though it is not always easy to get employment at this age.
I have found from experience that one or two older teachers on campus keeps a calm top on sometimes over spirited young people who see it much as a holiday or sort of outing and also we bring experience with us which the younger group often just don't have and oddly, WE DON'T COMPLAIN AS MUCH or argue over every little matter, as our essentials were not
much different for us when we were young, as we did not start from the luxury
we now give to our youngsters.

I am even considering going voluntarily when older, as in that instance, age is not an issue. The Chinese admit that the aged voluntary groups do excellent work - amusingly, one of the chinese admin-men at my first place was at least 73yrs old back then and is still going strong many years later. A shake- the- earth- come- back- after- some- years- in- America new Dean shoved him out so he promptly found himself another situation!
A dear and good friend of mine and man after my own heart!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rgermano



Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 1
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Discrimination Reply with quote

Discrimination is universal. It also degrades humanity, and the fact that it is cultural doesn't excuse it. It has taken centuries to erode just some of the injustice of discrimination, and there is much work to still be done. This isn't a Western/Eastern, First World/Third World issue, with "Westerners" trying to impose their values on Non-Westerners. Just ask the highly-qualified 58-year-old architect in Uruguay who is unable to get anything but freelance employment if she would mind those "Western" values imposed on potential employers by an anti-discrimination law.

Up until 2006 age discrimination was acceptable in the EU. Employment ads in Italy openly sought applicants between 25 and 35. What percentage of the Italian population falls within that age range?

Age and "attractiveness" discrimination are exploited and promoted by slick marketing techniques by multinationals that put emphasis on youth and good looks. They form a part of the gradual degradation of quality of life and living standards brought about by globalization. Eliminate the useless... Care for some Soylent Green, anyone?

Anyone promoting and justifying age, race, or any other form of discrimination that takes into account factors other than qualifications, experience and professionalism has bought into a shallow culture of appearances and image - something not to be justified by claims that this is "local culture" - instead discrimination must be denounced at every opportunity in the most vociferous way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Renate



Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Brilliant New Zealanders! Reply with quote

Although I have already written once to this one, I would like another bash. -- this is about the reality of situations.
Younger age does not necessarily guarantee energy and zest from its owners.
At one place where I worked I had a neighbour of late twenties. She had more allergies than I have years and 'suffered' terribly, spending an enormous amount of time trying to find THE perfect excuse to leave early.
Another colleague, a young-guilt ridden german woman masquerading as Swiss, seemed to have more guts, till one breathtakingly, stunning sunny morning on my way from lessons, limping a bit on my mending broken foot, hugging my mending broken arm socket, I saw her sitting on the lawn, surrounded by trees, obviously depressed to hell and I must admit, I felt quite sorry for her as I thought I understood her terrible concern about sanitary conditions - some people are so super clean arn't they. (fear not, a lovely student put a notice on our spotless College stairs asking everyone to be careful when they come down because Miss has ....)
That is until we were coming back from the city in a taxi. The good lady swore at the driver non stop in English - not even German which would have sounded more 'sweary' (he could only speak chinese anyway?) stormed out of the taxi in the middle of a motorway refusing to pay, half way along, leaving me to pay the man and ask passers-by for buses going to our destination. This put a whole new complexion on the matter for me.
She then shortly afterwards feined a holiday to Hong Kong and was never seen or heard of again!
I feel it would be far better if the medical reports weighed in more heavily in placements and the chinese used them for guidance, much as I wish our own Council would check citizenships instead of perpetually asking me what colour we are.
The Chinese anyway have little concept of the European time-clock and are always amazed at my still brown hair, not aware that this is a particularly central european phenomenon.
Many moons ago, when I was also late- twenties, my ex, children and I emigrated to New Zealand - twice! We had to go for an interview after which the two young men gave us their opinion as to our characters, suitability and their view of what would happen in the future. Even though himself had done the talking, having the gift of the blarney, they had it absolutely correct. Maybe the Chinese could go to New Zealand House and ask the Kiwis their method?
Also I do wish they would realise that families do actually have tragedies in Europe, -honest, though it is too often used as an excuse by the runners. Reminds me of a friend of my sons, who took so many letters so regularly to school about his grandmother's demise that eventually it just didn't work anymore when it really happened.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
LHuang



Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:11 am    Post subject: Age limit applies in Hong Kong for the NET program Reply with quote

Hong Kong Government has operated a Native English Teacher
(NET) program for its primary and secondary schools.
To qualify. requires as a minimum:
- a university degree;
- being a native speaker;
- work permit.
There is an order of preference, based on what subjects were
studied at university.
My understanding is that the rules do not allow hiring persons over age 60.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
canadianbacon



Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(1) Never include your photograph or birthdate on your CV/resume. Scan your passport information page and erase your birthdate using a photoshop program. When they ask you about it, respond by asking why the information is important to them.

(2) In your "hobbies and interests" section, replace "reading, opera and yoga" with "Latin dancing, beer-brewing and long-distance running".

(3) Employers in China will tell you it's "illegal" for them to hire teachers who are more than 55 years old. Respond by asking if they nevertheless hire part-time teachers illegally. Chinese work visas are only given for full-time contracts.

(Cool Dye your hair and get a botox treatment. In China, appearances are more important than substance, and you'll be judged before you sit down for the interview. Lying, deception and misrepresentation are culturally-acceptable methods in China. Turn the tables on them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joan frazier



Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:59 am    Post subject: Re: Getting Into The Game After Fifty Reply with quote

fotomann wrote:
I have been reading about all the horror stories of getting into the ESL game after a certain age. And there is much to be believed. However, just as with so many other things in life, performance counts. Regardless of the age. I have watched creeping ageism swallow individuals who had much to give but were beaten down by the age spectre. I avoided formal lines of employment and did things on my own. I operated within the locale. Letting the people absorb who I was. As the song says : Getting to know you. Little by little I was able to "build my stable". Some of the local languge schools (read ESL) came around to see what was what. Sizing up the competition. Asking the students if they were learning and using. All very favorable. I continued to work this way and was able to acquire students and make my way.

It can be done, but you are in for a long ride. Lotsa luck!




---- I also had a friend to whom I guess the Age discrimination does not matter. In the country where she lives since she was born, and until she graduated with degree, as long as teachers know how to teach students in the way they should be, you are qualified. Yet, I know discrimination is around the world. Many times, age becomes the main factor when applying for a job. Age should not be the main factor, because many professional people still have their "best" of their professionalism even when they grow older and older.

I am proud of those people but I am not happy to know that Age discrimination still affect many people worldwide.


Thanks for letting me share and I am grateful that I got the chance to read and post here. Wink


chiropractic marketing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richard H



Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:48 am    Post subject: Discrimination Reply with quote

Where I was living in Oz there was little chance of getting any job over 40 plus I didn't play golf or go to church so I stood no chance! This "60" rule in China is crazy as all foreign teachers have to have a medical, if you fail that, so be it but if you pass what has a number got to do with it. Take a look at the politbureau, hardly anyone under 70 (yes they all dye their hair). So it is OK to run the country at that age but not teach!!!!!! The teacher that took over my last job was considerably younger than I but had to take a "breather" when walking from the school gate to the apartment! What a farce!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
luke76



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My advice would be to get a DELTA or an MA if you haven't already. This will hopefully lead to work in universities which are less ageist.

I've seen a lot of older people forced out of language schools unless they were unionised or had an older boss.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
celtic864



Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: American English is NOT becoming the ESL language Reply with quote

American English is NOT becoming the ESL language

susanmholman wrote:
I was a single mom for many years. I decided that once both my kids were in college, I'd start my amazing career as an EFL teacher. Little did I know the descrimination I'd face. The school I chose said that it was easy for an American to get a job in Italy. American English, after all, is rapidly becoming the 'world' language. Wrong! You have to have EU working papers to be employed in the EU. The Catch-22 is that you have to be employed in the EU before you can get EU working papers. The other item no one ever happened to mention is the age factor. I'm continuously told that I don't look my age and I have my photo on my cv (but not my birthdate.) I've had several offers from schools around the world until they saw the date on my passport, never to be heard from again. I'm only 47, but you'd think I was 100. Whatever happened to wisdom that comes with experience.Crying or Very sad


American English is NOT becoming the ESL language
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mandrake



Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 6
Location: Uljin, South Korea

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Age discrimination in South Korea Reply with quote

Age discrimination does exist. I help a few recruitment agencies gather quality ESL candidates for positions in South Korea. I have been told that there is a definite preference for female teachers. In fact most of the jobs I have listed are for female teachers.

Unfortunately there is also the age discrimination; which I find ironic, considering that there is a large amount of respect afforded to the elderly i.e. it is customary in South Korea that nobody begins to eat until the Eldest person at the table begins to eat first.

I have been advised when looking for candidates that 23-40 years is the prefered age group.

However I am fully of the opinion, that with age comes wisdom.

However with advanced age comes senility Smile (just kidding).
_________________
Dr Shaun Hutchinson
Free Businesss Advertising Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JamesAtRealize



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 118
Location: Kobe, Sanomiya, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the same experiences, luckily on the good end of it.

Student's have come to me from older teachers, even older students, it's honestly sad.
_________________
マンツーマン 英会話 神戸 三宮 リアライズ - James
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESL Jobs Forum Forum Index -> Discrimination Issues in ESL... All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Protected by Anti-Spam ACP


Contact Us | About Us | ESL Jobs Newsletter | ESL Lesson Plan | ESL Online