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The End of Full-Time ESL Employment?
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"Most ESL schools expect teachers to work short-term rather than carve out a career."
I agree
66%
 66%  [ 10 ]
I don't agree
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Perhaps this is true
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
I've no opinion on the matter
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 15

Author Message
xpcommon



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject: The End of Full-Time ESL Employment? Reply with quote

Hi, I would come to say Hello to all forum members here. It is my first post here. in fact, I want to share my views with other people and make friends.
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Lee Hobbs
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Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 141
Location: TheGulfCoast

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:19 am    Post subject: Re: Can I share .. New here Reply with quote

xpcommon wrote:
. . . Hello to all forum members here . . .


Welcome XPcommon!

We hope that you will find something of use here at ESL-Jobs-Forum.

Please feel free to ask any ESL-related questions you have in any of the forums that you feel are pertinent to your concerns.

Best wishes,

Lee
http://www.english-blog.com

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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 263
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome! You'll find us a friendly lot, apt to share just about everything, including recipes, photos, and the odd idea or two about teaching.
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unionjack
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Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 491
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Welcome Reply with quote

Welcome aboard, Xpcommon.

UJ
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Ella



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just started job hunting in Australia. Yes, it is certainly the case. 4-5 years ago not many knew what exactly sessional teaching was about. Nowadays you may consider yourself lucky if you find at least something like this. Very disappointing!
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Lee Hobbs
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Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 141
Location: TheGulfCoast

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Welcome Reply with quote

Hey UJ,

Nice upgrade on that Union Jack avatar!

Lee
http://www.english-blog.com

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unionjack
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Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 491
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject: Avatar Reply with quote

Thanks Lee

However, I liked the other one better but the website went down and the avatar disappeared.

This is just an emergency one I picked up cheaply and therefore, I hope to get the other one back soon.

Makes a nice change I suppose

UJ
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lordanden



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Location: North China

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: esl work: school vs private Reply with quote

After some 14 years teaching in all levels K-graduate level, public and private schools, I am finished with that type of teaching, Here in Beijing one can get enough one to one students at 100 to 350 yuan per hour to make a decent living,
and I would not want to be a salary when chinese money devalues. Of course those with graduate degrees should do better. Even with my undergraduate English BA and my non-degree physician associate course I have taught journalism, history and a course "taliking about a patient in English" at a medical school, so there are satisfying jpbs availablle.
Dennis in Beijing
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Lee Hobbs
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Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 141
Location: TheGulfCoast

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Makes the situation sound more hopeful! Reply with quote

Thanks Dennis for that information.

Makes the situation sound more hopeful!

Best,

Lee
http://www.english-blog.com

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esigus



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Yup Reply with quote

I've found that even when one would like to remain for a long period, the schools are just so used to the "backpacker" type that they do not hold much confidence in the notion that someone would like to remain on-board more than one contract term. In Japan I've found that most schools will not renew a visa more than one year at a time until a teacher has been around at least two & shows connections within the community, etc. I guess that's fair & one cannot blame them. It is a two-way street & many teachers use schools simply to obtain a visa then go into privates for the increase in money potential. It often causes the rest of us have to take quite a lot of crap for their actions.

But then, there is the human side of us that says, "Well, if that's what they're expecting anyway, I guess I can do it too!" So the attitude can alleviate feeling guilty for leaving when originally not intending to do so.
All things are cyclical.
Cheers!
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JamesAtRealize



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 118
Location: Kobe, Sanomiya, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather hire a variety of part-timers rather than one or two full timers myself.

Better for the students, diversity and all.

That way I don't have to give paid holidays or pension etc.

It's win-win for the employer, the students.

Poor teachers will have to work in a few places though and save up for time off rather than get it paid.

Careers will have to be a long list of various work-places and conditions.

As an employer, I see no reason to hire full-time staff... do you?
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esigus



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Full-time vs freelance Reply with quote

JamesAtRealize,
I completely understand your perspective. However, as a freelancer myself, who's been contracted with the same firm for three years now, I can say that I have had most of the same students for three years. So there isn't a lot of variety for my students regarding seeing/experiencing other teachers.
The financial benefits of keeping me on a freelance basis all belong to the Business English training firm I'm contracted with.
My personal benefit is this: if I don't like a student/class, I just say "no" or drop the class without argument or trouble.
That's it. That's my benefit.
My students generally get six or more weeks of paid holiday per year. I have not been on any kind of real holiday for well over two years. It's too expensive. It's important to stay healthy so we don't miss work because of being sick as well. As a freelancer, I pay all insurance, pension, taxes, etc. (roughly 45% of my income when combined) on my own. Saving for a relaxing three week trip is really tough. When we (freelancers) don't work, we don't eat.

Why do I continue?
Because I enjoy being a foreigner; because I really enjoy teaching & my students; because I cannot imagine living in the US again.
Do I get stressed, do I get really sick of hearing about everyone's wonderful two or three week holidays all over the world two or three times per year per student?
Yup.
But I'd rather live here than there... I never got much for paid holidays in the states either, the employers always complained about two whole weeks per year & tried to cheat their employees out of them somehow anyway.
At least here I can say that I really like my boss (me) & I really like my clients... both those within the contract & my private students as well.
Being self-employed in EU countries is expensive. If you want to experience the joys of traveling, you have to work like a mad dog or go backpacker-style.
It helps to live with roommates.

In summary, I would suggest that teachers who are not stressed out about money all the time & who are able to get regular relaxing holidays without worrying about how they'll pay their rent after not working for two or three weeks, probably make far better teachers. Employment has its negative aspects, but in the end, it can really make for a higher quality, healthier, more relaxed teacher.

Quality.
Doesn't it count for anything anymore?

Here in Europe, most employers won't fool around with trying to hire non-EU teachers anymore anyway, because of the EU laws that mandate hiring an EU citizen whenever possible. The paperwork & process to hire non-EU citizens is a real pain in the tuckus.

But, from the perspective of the employer, I can see where it financially benefits you, even though I don't think that the quality of teaching is at all enhanced. There are loads & loads of teaching tools to introduce various accents, vocabulary (BE vs AE), etc. that good teachers use all the time to combat such obstacles.
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JamesAtRealize



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 118
Location: Kobe, Sanomiya, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'm reading, I think, is that there are ways for a single full time teacher to compensate for a lack of diverse instructor exposure to students.

In other words, for one teacher to emulate a multi-teacher environment.

But, why would an employer opt for the more expensive and troublesome single-teacher emulation over the fluctuating part-timers?

If my school was big enough I'd hire 3 or 4 full time teachers, and have the diversity, but I'm no where near that kind of capacity ><
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esigus



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesAtRealize
I understand your position.
I wouldn't argue your point that because your school is small, it is not financially advantageous for you to hire a number of full-time employees.

However, it is a trend with training firms/schools in general. For example the owner of the firm I've been contracted with for over three years has been in business nearly twenty years, fluctuates between 8-10 teachers (including a French teacher) at all times. She has only two contracted employees, both of whom are EU citizens. The rest of us are all freelance because we are all from outside the EU. We all work 20+ hours per week. I personally have another contract elsewhere as well as my private students. I am very busy but being able to afford a holiday is still a long way off because of all of the mandated expenses involved in simply living in an EU nation.

As a non-EU citizen, if one chooses to follow the rules, it's difficult to make a decent living, save any money whatsoever & enjoy decent holidays without financial stress.

I would argue that because of that, many freelance teachers find that they work more than they'd hoped & make far less money than they'd hoped so they move on. Asia is a much more lucrative option, as is the Middle East. Therefor, many training firms/schools find they have at least somewhat of a revolving door for teachers, which has both its pro's & con's for students.

My answer to the given question is: yes, definitely. In the EU, at least, for a non-EU citizen, it's something like a miracle if one can find a good employment contract.
I might add as well, now that Angela Merkel has made her grandiose statement about foreigners, it is just about to get even tougher for everyone, not just guest workers from Turkey & Arab nations, and not only in Germany, but throughout the EU, because of Germany's strong influence in Brussels.
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JamesAtRealize



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 118
Location: Kobe, Sanomiya, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that case I completely agree with you Smile

And I'd like to add that the situation is the same in Japan Smile
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