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Child Murder Suspect Hunting Teaching Job in Thailand-YUCK
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canuckophile



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:58 am    Post subject: Child Murder Suspect Hunting Teaching Job in Thailand-YUCK Reply with quote

I have actually heard people complain about requirements in some countries for a Criminal Record Check before anyone can be hired as a teacher. (In the last couple of years, South Korea has started to require a Criminal Record Check - but see below how useful it is.)

Look at this link... even with a conviction for child porn, the man who is to be charged with 7 year old JonBenet Ramsey's murder in 1996 was able to enter Thailand and look for a job.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14379566/page/2/

Triple YUCK - ESL teachers should be REQUIRED to have Criminal Record Checks - it's scary to think how many pedophiles are teaching. (At my public school system last year in South Korea, some dude - who presumably had "passed" his US Criminal Record Check - got caught fooling with the female students at his high school. So what did the silly school do? Just tossed him out of SK - no criminal charges - so HE is probably teaching someplace else in Asia.)
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sigmoid



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 81
Location: Southeast Asia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If background checks are to be done, the onus should fall upon the school and NOT the teacher.

I don't mind if you check my background, but I will not pay or go through the trouble to provide one.

The real problem is, that in many countries such as Thailand, schools are lacking teachers and resort to hiring those who show up.

A good solution would be to provide better salaries and conditions in order to attract better candidates. In this way, schools, the students and the teachers would all benefit.
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canuckophile



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: A triple yuck to YOU Reply with quote

Sorry but it's your responsibility to pay for the criminal record check - in the US, an FBI search is a big $18 USD. I think you should be able to budget for this. As for the school "handling it" so you aren't bothered, sorry buddy. You need to get your carcass to a local police station for fingerprinting. If that's too much trouble, too bad.

Your comments about all the "hassle" - good grief, if that is your attitude toward protecting the students we teach, please find another profession.

Even if Karr does not turn out to be JonBenet's murderer, he is clearly a very troubled person who should never have been near children. From his resume posted at a recruiter's website, it appears he fled the US after being charged with child porn activities on the internet in 2001, and immediately went to South Korea for a teaching position. I taught in SK at that time, and no criminal record checks were required.

This should not be happening.... no matter the "shortage" of ESL teachers, students will not die for lack of English classes - English is not like air/water/food or shelter.

Better teacher screening and checking criminal backgrounds is vital - even if YOU have to pay for part of it.. The issue of upgrading teacher's salaries, benefits is a separate one - it will also lead to higher qualifications and stricter checking of references, etc. - in the long run it will professionalize ESL and hopefully weed out some of the bad teachers, but it has nothing to do with weeding out the pedophiles.
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sigmoid



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 81
Location: Southeast Asia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you're saying that because these guys (whom I have never met) committed crimes in other countries, I should go down to the police station and be fingerprinted and registered although I have been teaching in Asia for over a decade without incident?

Sorry, but that is highly illogical. Laughing

Why should I be expected or required to do anything in response to or as a result of crimes committed by people with whom I have never had any association whatsoever.

Plus, I don't even teach kids. All of my students are adults.
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canuckophile



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject: Sigmoid - you sure don't get it Reply with quote

sigmoid

yes, you need to get a Criminal Record Check no matter what your personal situation.

A lot of women could (legitimately) argue that most police records etc, and certainly pedophile activities,. will be traced to men - but women have to do this too.

It's not illogical. Your comments are illogical. You seem to think that there's something special about YOU so that you don't fit into the rules that everyone else should abide by.

And if you are admitted to any country as a teacher, you could be teaching adults one year and children t he next.

And there are other issues on the Criminal Record Check - some schools may not want to employ someone convicted of certain crimes (robbery, embezzledment, fraud, ssault, etc.) - that's their prerogative. No one "owes" a westerner employment rights in Asia - we have to meet certain criteria. ((I hear a lot of people talking about how ESL offers people a "second chance" if they've screwed up their lives in some way or another - including some arrests for "sex offenses". That's perfectly ridiculous. ESL owes you nothing. Ever heard the phrase "accepting the consequences of your actions?" ... That's part of life.)

As I stated in the other post, regarding "your comments about all the "hassle" - good grief, if that is your attitude toward protecting the students we teach, please find another profession. "
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Sam Veson



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 1
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Western "criminals" teaching ESL overseas Reply with quote

Unfortunately, somethng like the recent incident in Thailand affects the reputation of all ESL teachers. It is a shame.

Some of my S. Korean students have been telling me of yet another scam -- some American ESL teachers start trafficking in women! Of course, this includes teenagers too. The students also tell me that this has caused a lot of ill feeling towards American ESL teachers, in general.

When we go to another country we have to remember we are not just the "individual" but also an unofficial ambassador.
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canuckophile



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:00 am    Post subject: Huh? How are AMERICANS causing the sex industry in S. Korea? Reply with quote

What do you mean - American ESL teachers trafficking in women?

Where do you hear this?

I've been in SK off and on for 5 years now - never heard this one.

I would not be surprised if it's not just another one of those anti-American Sk rumors. Basically, if they can't blame the Japanese for something, they blame us.

This in a country which has more than 350,000 prostitutes - more than all their teachers! (Oh, they blame that on us when they can, too -- all those US servicemen -- as if 25,000 US troops can keep 350,000 prostitutes busy). I read a publication from a SOUTH KOREAN UNIVERSITY STUDY of sex in SK which says that the number of people connected with the sex industry in SK is actually 1.5 million - cuz so much of it proceeds thru other businesses.

The rumors you hear from SK students could be a bunch of malarkey - I'm curious where you heard this. (Their top-grossing movie now is a monster movie based on an incident some years back in w hich a n American mortician stationed on one of the military bases dumped some formaldehyde in the Han River - this is one ANTI American country.)
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jonathanB



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:04 am    Post subject: crime checks Reply with quote

OK,
some of you have (by the sound of things) never lived on the wrong side of the law. As a child I grew up with the wrong crowd and it took me a great many years and hard work to grow up, and grow out of the life I knew. None of you were where I was! (or else you wouldn't be saying what you've been saying), living the life I lived, so how can you pass down judgment on me. Saying that I must pay for my sins untill the day I die. As a teacher, I think that you would have more compassion, as you teach not just a language but ideas, and if your ideas are never to forgive, then you are in the wrong industry, and should join the army or police force.
As teenages we often get into bother with the law, but as adults we tend to be a little wiser. Don't get me wrong I have never committed an act that would hurt someone (just myself / a little), AND I do agree that we need police checks for serious crimes (SEX / Violence, etc ), but for those of us that had lead a past life, we have grown and changed our ways, so why should I be judged by you, on life that I endured whilst I was a child, growing up in my life! My society! ????
I think that if police checks are to be done, then certain crimes committed whilst being a youth should not be brought into question, but YES we must protect the industry of teaching, as too many of the wrong minded people are employed in the system. And it makes other countries suspicious of us, for example, in Korea, because of a certain man who was found in Thailand, it was said that he first worked in Korea and now many Koreans are looking and judging all teachers as maybe being the same.
Anyway, I think (even with my bad spelling) that I might have got my point across.
As teachers we should never be the first to judge others, or to act without forgiveness, as we must educate those around us, into becoming better humans in their lives.
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Wocca



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 46
Location: China / Chile

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:59 am    Post subject: Let He Who Is Without Sin .... Reply with quote

Idea CLICK HERE for quotes from Star-trek-Deep-Space-Nine Episode Number:
105 Season Num: 5 First Aired: Monday November 11, 1996

Shocked "Let He Who Is Without Sin"...
Quote:
Fullerton: Mister Worf, I suggest you all get off this planet as soon as possible. I have no wish to see you or your friends harmed.

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canuckophile



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject: If you were a juvie.... Reply with quote

I don't recall anyone saying that offenses committed while you were a minor are a reason to keep you out of the teaching profession. Juvenile offenses do not appear on adult records.
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jonathanB



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject: J offences Reply with quote

They do if the person requires an in-depth search of all your criminal offences, they are allowed to be disclosed.
So depending on the person obtaining the info, they can choose to take no notice of those offences or act upon them as they see fit, and in a country like South Korea, even committing crimes as a youth would go against you. Confused
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canuckophile



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: I disagree Reply with quote

I think you might have a problem if the juvenile crimes were serious. However, I very much doubt ANY j.d. crimes would transfer internationally - I've never heard this and I'm skeptical that this would happen on a standard low-level (paperwork processing only) criminal record check - it would only happen, I think, if you've been charged with other crimes and there was some compelling need to look at your record
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Lee Hobbs
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 141
Location: TheGulfCoast

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: Bad Press on the ESL industry in Thailand continues... Reply with quote

Thought I'd pass this on from the Christian Science Monitor newspaper online. Take it for what it's worth, but this kind of story is becoming more common on the internet, and this publication has a wide readership base. Anyone else seen one like this that they like to offer up for discussion?

Quote:
August 26, 2006

Karr arrest highlights lax teacher vetting in Thailand

By Simon Montlake | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

BANGKOK, THAILAND Every year, thousands of footloose university graduates cross the Pacific to try their luck at teaching English in Asia. Some quit after a few semesters; others make it their career, and hop from school to school, and country to country.

But the arrest here last week of John Mark Karr for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey spotlights the dark side of the international school circuit, and has prompted calls for stricter controls on teacher hires . . .


[Click HERE to read the rest of the article but please return here to discuss!]
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alisonboston



Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I haven't checked the price of a criminal record check in Canada - but I'll be surprised if it is as little as $18.00 U.S.

I know if I work with kids in Canada I have to have a criminal record check, but the employer has it done, not me. I was never asked to get the CRC done myself until I was tentatively offered a job in Korea.

Frankly, I think if I get it done it's worthless because I am sure there are a countless ways for someone to commit fraud with a document like that, so if an employer wants a criminal record check they are probably best off getting it done themselves.

This whole thing is very ugly. One of the things that is most ugly is how the incident is used by some people as an opportunity to vent.

Enough. Too much already,
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canuckophile



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: CRC In Canada Reply with quote

I started a Criminal Record Check in Canada thru RCMP - I don't remember cost now but it wasn't high enough for me to remember it.

The issue of cost should NOT be an issue. If you have to get it, you have to get it. And you SHOULD get it.
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