ESL Jobs - ESL, EFL, TEFL, TESOL Teaching Jobs
  • FREE Weekly ESL Jobs
  • ESL, EFL, TESL, TEFL -- Get weekly updates of the Hottest New Jobs direct to your inbox as well as easily apply to new openings!
  • Enter your Email:

ESL Jobs Forum
"Where New and Seasoned ESL Professionals Come Together To Network . . . Share. Listen. Learn."

 FAQIndex    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups      RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

When the ad says "native" speakers only!
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESL Jobs Forum Forum Index -> Discrimination Issues in ESL...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jonathanB



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:14 am    Post subject: Native speakers Reply with quote

To Mike Henan,
If american English is indeed as you say it is, 'by far the pre-eminent dialect of the World', then why don't you rename it to 'american English? and it is (you will find) a language that is spoken throughtout the world (and not just in the US), and when spoken throughout the World I have yet to come across the use of the boaring accent that americans try to train people into mimiking ( Korea for example).
No matter what country you are from, when you are a teacher of any language, you must teach that language correctly, and not to what suits you best. Your job is a teacher, so enough of the Peder (instead of peter) firdy (thirty) and wader (water). If your language is indeed the new Englsih of the 21st centuary then please teach it correctly and enough of the accent thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HenanMike



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: Native Speakers Reply with quote

What point are you trying to make, Jonathan? You can't spell (throughtout, boaring, mimiking, Englsih, centuary) and your grammar is, to be kind, non-standard ("rename it to", "not to what suits you best", "Your job is a teacher").

If you are a native English speaker, which I doubt, you are either semi-illiterate or a troll purposely posting nonsense to show how bad NES English can be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
canuckophile



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: To Jonathan Reply with quote

Hmmm ... your comment regarding the 3 (public?) elementary schools in Korea that have refused to renew your contract intrigues me. The public schools have such a high attrition rate (nearly as bad as the hogwons) in renewing contracts that they often re-hire people they don't particularly like. (This is the EPIK program for those who care - English Program in Korea - designed to put a foreigner in all Korean public schools but It Will Never Happen, for a variety of reasons.)

Last year I was in one public school system that has had Americans, Canadians, Kiwis, Ozzies, South Africans, Brits - no one complained about anyone's accent. And one of the Canadians was a francophone with a distinctly French accent

Well, again - about those polite end-of-contract fare-thee-wells... If you are convinced it's your accent, OK - but I wonder....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ian



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: point taken! Reply with quote

I am proud to be a Canadian but the foolishness can be pretty ridiculous sometimes.
_________________
'I believe in karma and destiny, and that is all I need to know.'
'Be the change you want to see.' -- Gandhi
'Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.' -- Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Milagros Manning



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Philippines

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: On Native English Speakers Reply with quote

I strongly agree with Sumisan9. I am a Filipina and I live here in the Philippines. I was raised using the English language as a medium of instruction throughout my whole life. Not only that, diction is very important, although we would never acquire the American accent , we pronounce our words as we have learned in our English reading and phonics books. Most importantly, we always have to make sure we speak in correct grammar.

I am now teaching English to some Asians here and I've started since July, last year. We, Filipinos, because we are not "native English speakers" are paid about half as much as the foreigners are paid who teach in the same school but the same bulk of work. In fact, their salaries are dollar equivalent. Because we are not "native English speakers" we have discriminated upon in terms of wages yet, I am confident enough to say that my English is excellent.

This is the reason why I am very interested to get a teaching job in a school or as a private tutor abroad in order to get a better income.
_________________
I am a Filipina. I've lived here in the Philippines. I have a degree and throughout my whole life English has been our medium of instruction in school. I am confident I can speak and write English very well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Lee Hobbs
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 141
Location: TheGulfCoast

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Atrocious Writing in English Reply with quote


_________________

Lee's blog is still available, however, here: www.english-blog.com


Last edited by Lee Hobbs on Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gerry



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abusive post removed UJ ( Moderator )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
teaching



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject: Native speakers only Reply with quote



Hello. I am an English Coordinator in Mexico. I am also a Canadian native speaker. I have to say that the complaint is correct. The American teachers we have had in the past two years are not well versed in English.

They are hired as the students here are specifically going to have to operate, in future years, in the United States. I notice that the accents of the southern US are different from those of the north, northwest, and eastern states.

We now are hiring people with experience in teaching English in regular schools, with a B Ed - from the US ( north preferred) or Canada ( not Newfoundland or Quebec) preferred.

It is important that the children be exposed to the cadence and phonetic pronunciation of English.

People of other lands all have their own accent.

I hear many accents in Canada. The Oriental people have trouble with their r's and l's, unless Canadian born.

The East Indian people have a different. distinct accent that has been complained about in Universities there, by the students, as they do not understand. The speech is rapid, with a different vowel pronunciation and cadence. They run their words together, sometimes, so one cannot hear the concept being presented.

South African, Australian and New Zealand accents are also very strong on their emphasis of vowels long a is sometimes pronounced as long I ( hi Mate = Hi mite) and different r combinations. Ie: where ( wh air ) in US and Canada (we with very soft r)

We have a British speaker here who pronounces her u sounds as "oo" - as in put vs poot. THis also depends where in Britian one is taught.

I feel it depends on what the clients want --- in the end result--- where are the students going to be conversing?

I feel it is not discrimination against 2nd language speakers --- It is a choice of phoenetic presentation.

I have been told that the US announcers on TV are taught in Canada, to correct their drawls.

I feel that tapes of conversation should be heard before hiring so that the school knows what is being modelled. Knowing English is one thing and very important, naturally. Speaking it is another. Much like hi and low Japanese, common English and high English is also a consideration.... diction .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kiweed



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: mother tongue? Reply with quote

i was recently talking to a language school in britain asking about prices for some students and mentioned that where i am in italy there is very little work over summer. The lady said i would be welcome there as they always need teachers. I replied i was from nz but i can get the paperwork to work in britain....there was a pause before she said there could be some problems as they advertise the courses as "mother tongue".....??? A little stunned i replied that we speak english in nz....but same answer...."we advertise our courses as mother tongue"...???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
HenanMike



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:12 pm    Post subject: mother tongue Reply with quote

It sounds like they want a little "Received Pronunciation" Br.E. -- BBC stuff -- from their teachers. None of that colonial patois, please. You mention you were "talking" to the woman. Didn't she notice that you didn't sound like a member of the Royal family?

There is nothing wrong with an educated kiwi accent which seems to be acquired by those who go to King's or Auckland Grammar or some such.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nicetie



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1
Location: NZ

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Racism & EFL Reply with quote

I’m an African and found the 'racism in EFL' arguments very interesting and I feel like voicing my opinion. I think those schools in Asia prefer Americans & Canadians camouflaged ‘native speakers’ because they want to emulate America as much as possible. Since America rules the world, Asians schools are drawn to American success (in every imaginable way).

I don’t think anybody can be faulted for this native-speakers mania; the various schools want to satisfy their customers’ desire – American accent. The parents definitely cannot be blamed for showing preference for a particular accent. I think it is just in us [humans]; we tend to exhibit racial tendency at the slightest opportunity, sad but true!

However, I view the 'craziness' to learn American accents as some sort of complex. In saying that, we should be aware that it is a free world, so schools can actually specify 'native speakers' even though racism is frowned on worldwide. At least in black and white.

Specific demand for native speakers will probably never go away. It’s left for the supposedly ‘non-native speakers’ not to be discouraged but keep up their effort until they are successful in getting a teaching position.

On a last note, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Asians acceptance of ‘non-native speakers’ if America should decide that ‘non-native speakers’ are as good as ‘native speakers’. We all know how it works in our globalized world; a little diplomatic arm twisting and my African accent won’t sound ‘non native’ any longer. How sweet that will be! But alas, it’s not gonna happen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Curica



Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there!

I know that we all as non native speakers have to face the sad truth that we will be discriminated in some way for as long as we dont talk like the Americans do. But the issue here is that if you are the employer, would you hire a non native speaker with good credentials and teaching experiences rather than a native speaker without any teaching experience?

Being a teacher for 20 years, it is really important that you will be able to rise above the difficulties of teaching and meet all the challenges that go with it like a real pro. Parents' complaints, misbehavior of kids, learning disabilities; these are just a few of the problems that a teacher will encounter along the way. In my opinion, a native speaker without teaching experience will not be able to last in the teaching field, if he or she lacks the necessary teaching experience, teaching style and approach in dealing with the students.

However, if the employer wants quality, then hire a native speaker with Education Diploma or Child Development Certificate. That would be the most ideal but hard to find.

You may reach me at curica41@yahoo.com (Blogsite: www.shashavica.blogspot.com) Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
lali



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to sound so rude and I know that this posting is going to be unpopular, but in reply to the Filipino teacher who says that her English is excellent, I must disagree. I have found various grammatical errors, some of which I will highlight: ' we always have to make sure we speak in correct grammar', 'we pronounce our words as we have learned in our English reading and phonics books', 'although we would never acquire the American accent ' and 'I've started since July , last year'

I am a native speaker EFL Teacher and even I make mistakes in English.

I have nothing against non-native English teachers, in fact some non - native English teachers are more competent than native ones.

I just feel that if you are going to teach English whether as a native or non - native speaker, your English has to be at a minimum, good.

If you state that your English is excellent then make sure it is. Even I wouldn't describe my English, which is my first language as being excellent, because I know it isn't.


Last edited by lali on Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daimyo



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree; in order to teach something no matter what it is, one must be confident in his or her subject knowledge or how are we to transfer those skills to the students that we teach? However, how ridiculous is the claim that only 'native' speakers (with accents deemed to be most appropriate) can be the best teachers of the English language?
I ,for one, am exhausted from applying for jobs that require 'native English speakers' only, and am starting to doubt whether merit will win over ingrained bias/stereotypes.
I was the only foreign national on my PGCE teacher training course at university in the UK, but that didn't stop me from proving time after time in all the extensive assessments we went through that I was just as capable, and in some cases better, than the 'native' English speakers I trained with.
I am angered by the thought that somebody without the training or formal teaching qualifications and experience that I have had can apply for, and probably secure, a teaching position solely based on the fact that they have been categorised as a 'native' English speaker.
So we can sit around and punch holes into each other's English, but the fact remains that discriminating against non-native speakers is wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Perdita



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Ushuaia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vlada, you must be on top of the world now! You are about to be considered a native speaker of English, that is, if your pronunciation conforms to the postmaster's criteria (RP, Estuary English, Mid-Atlantic English? I wonder ...). May I refer you to a very interesting book published in the nineties(1992, to be more precise), 'Linguistic Imperialism, by Robert Phillipson (OUP), chapter 7 (Creating a Profession: The Structure and Tenets of ELT) ? It will boost up your morale. Peter Medgyes has also published 'The Non-Native Teacher', but you must be familiar with that great little book!Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESL Jobs Forum Forum Index -> Discrimination Issues in ESL... All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Protected by Anti-Spam ACP


Contact Us | About Us | ESL Jobs Newsletter | ESL Lesson Plan | ESL Online